I've been 3.5 years at 62 and re-orged every year in mobile.Any ideas on how to carry greats results of one role into another through a re-org. Next, make sure your manager values your contributions and surpass their expectations, making yourself invaluable and not immediately replaceable. Great post! By doing this they are short circuiting the feedback loop and thereby preventing themselves from improving. How do you make sure you do a good job but not too good of a job.Also higher levels will tend to require you to do things you may not like. Great post. The reason why they were 65's are:1. It can help you identify blind spots which may be holding you back.7. While cash bonuses stay relatively stable as a percentage of salary over the course of a Microsoft employee's career, stock compensation can rise to nearly 20% of annual income at higher levels, according to the crowdsourced data. This is where I agree with Mini regarding taking MSFT back to the good ol' lean, mean, and efficient company we enjoyed. If your boss isn't banging his fist on the table for you, it won't happen. If it is "Absolutely!" Of course I ensure my manager and skip-level are aware of my contribution as a mentor, but I figure that as long as I'm in front of the wave, the best way for me to advance is to move the wave forward. for people, who might claim that they do all this and still cant progress.. dude, either you are in wrong group or you have not introspected / taken feedback well or you are missing the whole thing by a mile. I like such themes and everything that is connected to them. It sounds fishyMy manager was also saying me something along the same lines. Unless you know for sure that your boss's answer is an immediate "Absolutely!" * Stability at Microsoft is a two-edged sword. Levels 57 and 58 are reserved for non-permanent employees and Levels 59 and 60 are reserved for New Graduates. I work in MSN and we still have no way to know the levels of our peers. * Leaving the company - oh, the all too easy escape: I have seen that mentioned in quite a few comments. Ask yourself: what fraction of your job do you actually enjoy? I got involved in features up front, by spending time getting to know the PM team. I knew it backwards and forwards, better than anyone else does now or ever will. Additionally, a Level 62 doesn't really have the tools to evaluate and sell a promotion to a 63. Ready? Thanks.Sorry mini -- I meant the content of the comment I referenced, not the content of your original post (which I'm in violent agreement with). I will mis-direct and confuse you with hearsay. The general consensus is why get rid of someone who is happy doing their job and can do it better than anyone else. Especially since the days of job title/level transparency.People should not forget that many times, higher levels do not equal higher pay. Alternate to your left hand appropriately when tired. I'm an SDE, so a large part of my time in the product cycle is spent fixing bugs. It's because you were playing catch-up to Apple, and playing Machiavellian games with the media companies instead of working on the issues that your customers were complaining about.When will MS learn this lesson? .css-1odorsr{display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1ln5qhx{-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1dmvvgc{margin:0;color:#0060b9;-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}Get your salary negotiated .css-1npej63{-webkit-user-select:none;-moz-user-select:none;-ms-user-select:none;user-select:none;width:1em;height:1em;display:inline-block;fill:currentColor;-webkit-flex-shrink:0;-ms-flex-negative:0;flex-shrink:0;-webkit-transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;font-size:1.25rem;margin-left:-4px;}or your resume reviewed by the real experts - recruiters who do it daily. By then I had already already set up several clients as in independent consultant, so I declined to stay. One of the interesting things about the level structure that I find interesting is that you are always expected to perform higher than your level. I might be still employed by Microsoft if I knew he wasnt doing it willingly.One thing I would do different if I could do it again is to not advance levels any faster than I have to. No one else was as good. Both job switches came from conversations I had with former co-workers or former directors. Only 1 of the 4 [sic]s were legitimate. In spite of it, I've been promoted 8 times in 12 years. Microsoft, Go to company page If you find yourself in this spot - get a good external mentor to help you manage through it if you don't feel you can have this conversation with your manager.4. Let's Hear it for the Girl! He identified the common denominators in becoming an expert in practically any field. @No! I also agree with the requests to have a discussion related to 65+.Anyway, I have seen a very healthy discussion going on here, and most of the thoughts I wanted to share have been mentioned. Joined MCS at level 60 and was immediately told that L61 would be years away. "Ain't seen nothing yet" is a more popular variant of the same due to a song with that title and refrain. If you are considering leaving your team (or Microsoft) but think you could be persuaded to stay, be careful about how you present this to your manager. Wow. i've been hearing this.. you know when you are about to cut a small feature and do balancing in your sprint/milestone essentially this is happening at VP level. I've been a 62 for too long by Microsoft standards. Every spec coming to this team had my feedback in it. Keep your mouth shut most of the time (i.e. Because, except on the rare occasion, Microsoft and your team isn't going to change. You've made 3 mistakes. Your Team: you have to be able to understand why the L63s and L64s are where they are. Any idea on when is this going to change? This makes it very easy to feel underleveled, because the 6 people that started 3 weeks before you might take up the 2 promotion spots available per year for 3 years (numbers all made up).You also, at least in my experience, aren't really given feedback on when you're performing at a level that *could* be promoted. After I became a lead & manager, I was given a team in turmoil after a re-org and straightened that out. Thanks for starting this. Will a team that needs exactly the skills and interests that you have pass on you because of some HR guideline? Experienced Operations & Project Manager with a demonstrated history of working in the financial services industry. You are employed by Microsoft's shareholders. Eventually you have to make that leap or you arent ever going to get your hands on that other bar. It can be a really discouraging time in your career, but if you can get past it youre headed for another amazing growth curve like the one that got you to level 62! Former Employee Director, Level 65 at Microsoft Aug 11, 2009 - Director in Redmond, WA Recommend CEO Approval Business Outlook Pros Microsoft has all the resources necessary to win in the market, and you're surrounded by some of the brightest people in the world. They have commitments to grow their employees. But, if you have the possibility of finding a position that you will really enjoy, where your goals and those of Microsoft are fairly close, then your long-term potential will be higher. I think folks like that are the one-offs who slipped by and most likely (given the scrutiny I see more and more) certainly wouldn't slip by today. Lots of terrible mid level managers at MS. To the person from MCS who said it was easy to get to 64 in MCS - MCSinTheFieldI agree with you there, you can get to a L64 in MCS but try to ever transfer to another org as a L64. Absolutely not Definitely yes 3 1 David Lean Worked at Microsoft (company) (1990-2009) Upvoted by Jack Schofield , Computer journalist who has covered Microsoft for 35 years. What are other groups doing? What I think may be worthwhile is understanding the circumstances of those anomalies and figuring out why they occur and how to "incent" management to ensure that they don't occur. I /like/ OneCare. Don't like branching strategy? FY08 review: "limited". That figures. When (if) you are then promoted to 62, you are not expected to continue performing at a level 62 level, but rather a level 63 level.The reason that you have to perform at a new level before reaching it is to avoid the Peter Principle, being people promoted up to their level of incompetence. They don't survive long while others who do little move up. Many senior people, even VPs read this blog. In the beginning, I volunteered for these tough areas that no one else wanted and over time, my brand became the fix it guy. I know to a certain degree that's all of us - but, if you're dealing with 2-3 a year or every other year then you need to get out. I haven't seen one single person getting hired below L63 in my group during last year. I'm interested in reading your perspective and what advice you'd give to someone new to the company looking at a career path similar to your own. Should I trust my manager or is this just one more of his demonstrations of poor management skills? Founded in 1969 by Dr. Bish Agrawal, ABC Consultants is the pioneer of organized recruitment services in India. then the follow-up is: after what accomplishments and around when? Or - are they going to take the easy path and sack people in Europe and Asia? I've been at 59 for going on four years now, and was told by my manager over 2 years ago that I was totally ready and qualified for promotion to L60, but that "there wasn't enough budget" (yeah right), and this was in *Office* (a group which is clearly strapped for cash, I guess). Its a bit like the famous phrase about the definition of obscenity. If you're a manager, what's your L63 promotion philosophy? Avoid long-winded multi-point e-mails, boil down your points as succinctly and efficiently as possible. Despite the fact you may be totally right, you can inadvertently be viewed as a negative person.Although your bosses are probably aware of the problems, they might be overwhelmed by the scope of the situation, and start getting annoyed at you for being the person always reminding them about the flaws. You are now 20% closer to promotion just by a day of work :). Microsoft employees make an average base salary of $208k & a total compensation of $280k. They took credit for work done by others (#2 helps).Seriously, they only way to separate the wheat from the chaff in this company is to allow to interview without notifying the manager. Here is a nice place to start :-)http://guestgame.com/. I just want to grow, and I am aware that it does not translate to a promotion always. The funding for our project stopped and our vendor team of 28 people have been asked to leave immediately. Sad but true Mini et al addressed this with the descriptions of the distinguishing traits you need to develop and demonstrate. Real HR managers from Microsoft would have just three [sic]s in a post of that length. Yet, I know that a friend just got one. I also don't know if this is the first step towards a lay-off, but for now, it seems we'll have jobs for a few more months.Ugh, not good, not good at all. Thus promotions are easy to L62 - if you don't make 62 quickly, there is something wrong. Are all management titles and the name used to call then in different orgs can change. The way to succeed here is to find out how you make you, and your manager, and his/her leads, succeed as a team. However L64 takes some time and L65 is very difficult. However good your manager is, she or he is still a human with insecurities and ego. My first year I thought for sure I would sit at L61 for another year, but to my surprise I was promoted to L62 without even a full FY under my belt. According to Glassdoor, senior software engineers at Google can earn $172,818 as their average base pay, along with average cash bonuses of $30,921, stock bonuses of $104,769, and some other cash incentives for a total of $201,000. If you have your mnanager in your pocket, you cna achieve greate heights in life. Be prepared for every possible question, scenario, disaster, etc. For some teams - especially those like Office with few departures release-to-release resulting in level compression - that's a rough bunch. Averages based on self-reported salaries. A Senior Director gets a basic salary package of $190,000, which gets as high . Very few jobs are leveled across more than 2 levels but most jobs could be more than on level (depending on the candidate something could be a 61 or 62).To take on more you need to be doing two things:1. A past co-worker of mine had the same thing done to him and now there are two devs doing what he did by himself.I guess Microsoft has its reasons. What is the average promotion velocity for non-technical fields? Really inspiring. For technical and management track, the job level start from 57 and continues till 80. Many 62s (and 63s) make substantially more than 64s. It's usually too late at that point. If you're off-path, you can turn it around. Why cannot we have our address title reflect our level as everybody else in the company?Not giving quite as snide a response as the previous posterAsk your management. Got lucky on that one!!!! Help Your Manager (and your team) Be Successful: No one has more influence over whether you get promoted than your immediate mgr. as many others posters said: if you are worry too much about promotion chances are you will keep worrying. My old boss was a 65 but his title was "principal director of engineering", new boss is the exact same level and job and his title is "principal engineering manager". Outside of those two situations, I have never asked for a promotion. This past year I had what I thought was an outstanding year, was given a 20%, but not promoted to L63. Stop thinking of your Mgr as your adversary and listen to what they are telling you. It's what you can offer, not what you want out of it that most teams are looking for. . You havent [sic] seen nothing [sic] yet. But the opportunities I see doing X seem to be compelling from a financial and growth standpoint. Staff Software Engineer, Google Cloud Platforms, Senior Staff Software Engineer, Infrastructure, Principal Engineer, Developer Platform Systems, Senior Software Engineer, Mobile (Android), AR. Google, Go to company page (Not). Your lead. There were times when I was promoted more slowly than I probably could have been, but I am very happy with where I am now, and I am still growing. This past year I had what I thought was an outstanding year, was given a 20%, but not promoted to L63. One of my reports and I had that conversation not that long ago, and I explained to him that at 62, he can take on any task I'm asking him to do. So one big part is do good work, but another is don't do bad work.I think it's a very good idea to ask for a promotion. Entry level (4,718) Associate (1,976) Mid-Senior level (40,085) I've lucked out a bit by working on a key project for our group and division, although a lot of that was due to my own contributions. Could somebody please confirm or deny this. RIF in the SQL team? Then I would get emails rating my abilities in these areas that I had no input into it and any replies rebutting it would go unanswered. Promotion budgets of 65 and above has been kept intact.Promotion and raise budgets are going to be quite tight everywhere, not just at MS. We discussed progress at least once a month. Reading all this makes me so happy I don't work at MS anymore. A) What is the market facing title for L66 and above levels at Microsoft?B) What is the equivalent at Microsoft of Amazon L7?C) Rank the below titles at Microsoft in decreasing order of seniority: e.gPrincipal > Senior Director > Director > Senior Manager > Partner, Go to company page

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